Curse

Reformed · May 09, 2011, 12:35 PM // 12:35

It's a way to bribe people into rehashing content for the nth time and to encourage grouping OP. Zaishen in and of itself is not endgame content but it can direct players towards the endgame.

Iuris · May 09, 2011, 12:51 PM // 12:51

Depends on how you define "endgame".

In most MMOs, endgame is "what to do when you reach the max level". So they stuff in some extra hard areas/raids/dungeons and let you grind it out forever.

GW1 and 2 approach this differently. Here, it's "give players at max level" something to do (not that they don't have some elite areas, mind you, they do). GW1 does this by setting max level extra low and adapting most of the game to that level. GW2 does this with downscaling player level to keep even low level areas a challenge.

Looked at this way, Zaishen quests are intended to A) focus the community onto a single task and B) make players avoid repetition by making different tasks appealingly well rewarded.

So, yeah, I do consider them endgame.

Chthon · May 09, 2011, 05:05 PM // 17:05

1. I realize belatedly that I forgot to answer OP's actual question. ZStuff is "end game" when the goal happens to be part of the end game content, and not when it's not. So, "Kill Duncan" ZB? End game. Kill Captain Wahli ZB? Not end game.

2. It seems that a lot of folks take a very narrow definition of "end game" that just doesn't square with the plain meaning of the term or how it's used in MMOs in general. What you're really describing is "really hard content" or "gives bragging rights content." It's fine to set this stuff off in its own category, but it should get its own label instead of a misdefinition of "end game content."

3. I left a few things off my prior list:

Titan quests
War in Kryta
Winds of Change (coming soon)

majoho · May 09, 2011, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

2. It seems that a lot of folks take a very narrow definition of "end game" that just doesn't square with the plain meaning of the term or how it's used in MMOs in general. What you're really describing is "really hard content" or "gives bragging rights content." It's fine to set this stuff off in its own category, but it should get its own label instead of a misdefinition of "end game content."

Except those people are right.

Like I said previously ELITE Quests is the closest you get to Raiding which is THE PvE endgame.

I wouldn't consider doing daily quests in WoW endgame so doing zquests aren't really either (except ofc they ask you to go kill Duncan or Stygian thingies).

Cuilan · May 09, 2011, 06:39 PM // 18:39

If you plan on doing Zaishen quests daily on a character, than you're likely "endgame" with most of the locations. Some Zaishen quests even have you doing things in elite areas. Even if it's something earlier in the game, the quests generally attract people who've at the very least finished the main story(s).

Darknes Lives Again · May 09, 2011, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by floor

Winning a Gold Cape is the ultimate endgame imo.

I dont personally feel that there is any part of PvE that can really be thought of as a massive achievement. My own opinion is that if you can farm it, or complete it repeatedly, which almost every quest/mission/boss/dungeon in pve can be with practise, then its not enough of a challenge.

To go into GvG, win the monthly tournament and get a gold cape on the other hand, most people can gvg for years and never achieve it, and the number of people who went on to win more than 1 gold cape, is probably not much greater than 50. This is such a tiny fraction of the entire playerbase it shows what an achievement this is.

For me this is the ultimate challenge, its my idea of endgame content.

I agree with you that a gold trim cape is one of the biggest achievements ingame, but saying its the biggest because 50 only achieved it is not true imo. 2 man DoA record only 2 people achieved on doing it

. Not many know or can perform the current speedclear records like DoA/UW/Fow. I think you need to see PvP and PvE totally apart from eachother in Guildwars.

Ghull Ka · May 09, 2011, 10:14 PM // 22:14

Post 2 got it right.

Sadly this game doesn't have good endgame content like WoW raids.

The feeling of "tension and equilibrium" in WoW when a raid encounter starts is unlike anything I've found in another game. The "keep it all together" ritual that happens with damage in, damage out, and healing, combined with "individual jobs" that differ in each encounter -- tons of fun. Really feels good to know you're part of a cohesive unit, and that if this unit fails, then you don't kill the boss.

The rest of WoW's endgame, the "eternally chase gear upgrades" can kiss my blue furry butt... that kind of loot treadmill is NOT what I want in any other game.

But the "feel" of a WoW-style endgame boss encounter is something that GW definitely misses. Urgoz, Kanaxai and Mallyx all fail on achieveing this "feel". Dhuum pretty much does also. In GW, half the battle for "endgame content" is bringing the right team build before you leave town -- once you're in front of the boss, it's pretty much the same as every other fight in GW.

enter_the_zone · May 10, 2011, 01:13 AM // 01:13

Wait, I thought PVP was the endgame content and everything else was just stuff to keep us PVE noobs occupied?

I'd say Z-Quests and most everything else which has significantly greater rewards in, or requires, HM is effectively endgame because at least one of your chars has to have completed the game (ie. finished the storyline.... aka reached the end of the game) to access HM. For the most part, not especially hard endgame content, but that's the way it goes.

gremlin · May 10, 2011, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by enter_the_zone

Wait, I thought PVP was the endgame content and everything else was just stuff to keep us PVE noobs occupied?

I'd say Z-Quests and most everything else which has significantly greater rewards in, or requires, HM is effectively endgame because at least one of your chars has to have completed the game (ie. finished the storyline.... aka reached the end of the game) to access HM. For the most part, not especially hard endgame content, but that's the way it goes.

People say and believe that but I personally doubt it.

Companies are out to make money and a pvp game must be easier to program than a pve one.
Why on earth would they spend probably 90% of their total game programming time on something that is essentially just a preliminary to the real game.

GW is both a pvp and a pve game and though pve is easier than pvp it is in no way inferior.

Essence Snow · May 10, 2011, 02:07 AM // 02:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghull Ka

But the "feel" of a WoW-style endgame boss encounter is something that GW definitely misses. Urgoz, Kanaxai and Mallyx all fail on achieveing this "feel". Dhuum pretty much does also. In GW, half the battle for "endgame content" is bringing the right team build before you leave town -- once you're in front of the boss, it's pretty much the same as every other fight in GW.

My issue with Dhuum is that, for a boss he can be beaten very easily using niche setups and very difficult in other circumstances. Pretyy much takes the epicness out of it for me.

Reformed · May 10, 2011, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essence Snow

My issue with Dhuum is that, for a boss he can be beaten very easily using niche setups and very difficult in other circumstances. Pretyy much takes the epicness out of it for me.

I agree though I'd rank Mallyx over Dhuum as the most gimmicky niche prone boss. Consider that teams are still using door glitching that has been known about since 2007. Dhuum at least wins handily in the aesthetics department even if he falls short on overall design. That crown I'd personally give to NOX which is a much more well designed fight that has never felt tedious.